Conversation
Notices
-
-
@emmajanedotnet re "explaining to girls what we actually do": what?
-
@maco That was a quote from Mark Shuttleworth's keynote at LinuxCon in Portland re. the audience being able to explain their work to "girls"
-
@emmajanedotnet *headdesk*
-
@emmajanedotnet disappointing. Any chance he meant "girls" literally, i.e. female children? (Crossing my fingers.)
-
@evan Doubtful he meant female kids. Also based on audience laughter, doubtful it was interpreted as such.
-
@emmajanedotnet I watched the video. I think the quote was something like: So I can actually explain what I do for a living to girls.
-
@emmajanedotnet So the context was more like him trying to explain #ayatana to a woman he meet. The video has the context.
-
.@matthewjones Please wrap even more context around it: developers were always "guys" but it his "mother" or "grandmother" who needed help.
-
@emmajanedotnet He was talking about how it is hard to define the design work they do on ubuntu. Then he said it. Not sexist in my POV.
-
@emmajanedotnet Maybe his father is like mine and wouldn't dream of touching a computer. Okay, maybe not. #devilsadvocate
-
@matthewjones It was only sexist language by happenstance. If he was gay, he would have said "guys" instead. That is the best I can explain.
Ted Smith likes this. -
@br3nda I'm all for feminism, but this is out of context. She didn't even see the video stream. People need to see that for themselves.
-
I wouldn't defend presenting devs and "girls" as non-intersecting sets, but I suspect my house has too much glass to start throwing stones.
-
@matthewjones "happenstance" doesn't make it any less exclusionary, sadly :/
-
@hypatiadotca He's including girls as people he would poorly explain bad design to. So of course he picks girls. Hetero men like girls
-
@matthewjones Got a link to the #Shuttleworth #girls video?
-
@bobjonkman sorry not yet. really really wish someone did
-
@matthewjones if he likes girls, he should consider that crap like this is belittling. As is the use of "girls" to desc a group of women :/
-
@matthewjones @emmajanedotnet watched the video live - she saw the context. We think it was problematic, what's your need to defend?
-
@hypatiadotca Not trying to be rude. Please develop your own opinion by watching the video, rather than reiterating someone else's opinion.
-
@hypatiadotca She is comparing the "RMS emacs virgins" incident to Mark saying he can't explain crap design to a group he respects.
-
@matthewjones my opinions are my own, thanks.
-
@hypatiadotca I want to be friends. Please have your opinion. It is ultimately more important that we are different, than think the same.
-
@matthewjones I hear ya. Please start listening rather than defending.
-
@hypatiadotca I was hoping to end this topic. But I'll always defend something that I think is being treated unjustly.
-
@matthewjones consider that perhaps it's women who are being treated unjustly here, specifically, being marginalized, excluded, & belittled?
-
@matthewjones Liz explains it better than I do: http://tinyurl.com/yb3aylh
-
@hypatiadotca I commented about that http://identi.ca/notice/10622895. Lets be friends, and not talk about this. Any other topic is fine.
-
@matthewjones unfortunately, I don't have the choice to walk away from sexism that you do. Did you read Liz's comment?
-
@hypatiadotca I don't think this is sexism. I think it is sensational journalism, and knee jerk, reactionary, me too, group conformance.
-
@emmajanedotnet dude at least tag this #WTF. I nearly missed it.
Evan Prodromou likes this. -
@evan "Female children" wouldn't be better, really. :P I meet more of them at local linuxcons, btw then male kids.
-
@blauzahl "Explaining to girls what we actually do," if it means keeping (literal) girls engaged with technology, seems ++ to me.
-
@evan from what folks there said, he was making a joke and girls == women
-
@evan like as in trying to impress/pickup chicks
-
@maco I am sorry, but by me saying "Ya, I hack on free software," doesn't impress let alone pick up chicks :)
-
@maco actually nothing I do works, unless I start slamming tequilla in the morning :p woohoo! drink some for me at OLF!
-
@nixternal you're not here? I was gonna give you my drink ticket
-
@maco nah, not doing conferences...though I might come just for teh drink ticket :)
-
@evan Well, I explain to little boys what I do too. But really, both groups just want stickers before they go back to their XO laptops.
Evan Prodromou likes this. -
@blauzahl I want stickers!
-
@blauzahl absolutely.
-
Please, Mark, acknowledge that you've made a mistake here: http://identi.ca/notice/10610963
-
@gregknicholson If he's got any sense, he should find a way to turn this incident into renewed support for an actually-inclusive community.
-
"On keynotes and apologies", Chris Ball: http://ur1.ca/cgy4 Good post about Mark Shuttleworth's "girls" comment.
-
@120new e.g. by admitting the mistake, and thanking the community members who called him on it for making it clear that this isn't OK.
-
@gregknicholson That'd be a good way to start, yes. Or even saying *anything* might be a good idea.
-
http://ur1.ca/cirz …“over emotional”? Well at least his putdowns aren't cliché-oh-no-wait-yes-they-are.
-
…Dammit. I should've made a bingo card before reading that. …flippant defensiveness… Srsly, folks, this guy should write for the Daily Mail.
-
@emmajanedotnet What did the "RMS, anyone?" comment mean?
-
@snan Isn't the reference to women because the virgin Mary was a woman?
-
@petrock No, not really. Virgin females are significant in many sexist religions. There are many problems with RMS’ comments.
-
@snan I realize that (i.e. other religions), but Richard was specifically using the Christian Mary given the context, no? "CHURCH of Emacs?"
-
@snan And I'm sorry, but what is wrong with sexualization? If one has personal and general issues with sex, that's unfortunate...for them.
-
@petrock The word "Church" does not imply Christian
-
@petrock people don't go to a technical conference to hear about sex! That's what's wrong. If they want to hear about sex , go to porn shop!
-
@snan I would say patriarchal rather than sexist, and also, the Church of Emacs routine is intended to mock christianity, I'm fairly sure.
-
@furicle what about the Unitarian Universalist Church? Atheists, Jews, Pagans, and...yes...Christians...all attend it
-
@petrock Sex in itself is cool when it’s not used to create a divisive or a hostile environment, which RMS’ comments do.
-
@petrock RMS specifically singled out female Emacs novices and likened it to a sexual initiation with negative connotations for many women.
-
@petrock We’re looked upon as passive, as others, and non-subjects—and that view poisons both sexual relationships and, now, even hacking.
-
@petrock I like sex, but as a participant and with people I trust. Showing me Emacs while claiming to be taking my virginity is not cool.
-
@teddks Virgin Mary is a woman so a parody religion says “it’s a sacred duty to relieve women of their virginity”? Non sequiteur imho.
-
All Identi.ca content and data are available under the